Comments on: Pagan Christianity? Hope or Hype?

By: J.R. Miller

J.R. Miller — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 06:42:07 +0000

Strong stuff, but some very good insights as well. I think you are new to my blog as well, so I hope you don’t mind if I point you to an interview I did a while back with Viola and Barna both.

http://www.morethancake.org/2008/06/george-barna-and-frank-viola-speak-out-on-pagan-christianity-part-5.html

I apologize ahead of time that a lot of my links are broken… somehow my switch from blogger to WordPress did not turn out as I had hoped. Anyway, if you bear with the breaks until I get them fixed, I think you should enjoy the interview and my summary.

By: Sonshine

Sonshine — Sun, 14 Dec 2008 21:53:42 +0000

Frank Viola’s personal life has caused me to not endorse him. He left his wife for one of his own high school students (she was out of school but only about 20). He further would not submit to even the house church leaders who urged him to repent and return to his wife.

As far as the book, I think too often house church Christians write out of anger and not biblical correction. They so want others to leave the traditional church for house churches that they can come across mean spirited. Further, while house church members actknowledge that God has used pastors, they still call for their demise.

By: Tom (blendedworship)

Tom (blendedworship) — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 01:05:57 +0000

Dear Zane,

I must be a busy guy (or a slow reader!) but it took me a week after your edifying comment on my blog and my seemingly interminable commentary on Frank’s book. I’m so glad I plowed through to read it, though. It makes so many valid points.

By: A House-Church Blogger Shares… « A Weblog about Worship and Songwriting

Sun, 07 Sep 2008 22:02:20 +0000

[...] http://www.housechurch.org/blog/2008/02/18/pagan-christianity-real-hope-or-shrill-hype/ [...]

By: Zane

Zane — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:23:25 +0000

Obviously, I am in favor of fellowship on the golf course and churches of small size.

Lets begin with the cover of Revolution, friend. The subtitle is “Finding vibrant faith beyond the walls of the sanctuary.” And, from the back cover: “Millions of believers have moved beyond the established church and chosen to be the church instead.”

On page 7 we discover that the super-Christian golf buddy David “rarely attends church.”

On page 116: If a person is able to live a godly life outside a congregation based faith, then that too is good.

Page 120: Millions of them attend church – millions do not.

Page 29: My goal is to help you become a revolutionary… Whether you become a revolutionary immersed in, minimally involved in, or completely disassociated from a local church is irrelevant to me…

Page 131: Knowing that many revolutionaries grow in their relationship with God outside the ministry of a local church.

All this sounds “prescriptive of what should be” to me. In fact, Barna frequently speaks of the unchurched revolutionaries as superior to their lesser churched brethren.

The scriptures offer precious little in support of Barna’s slogans or of his scenario of churchless Christianity. The word ‘church’ means a congregation, deliberately assembled. It is never applied to one person or “hangin out.” “Being the church” is as much an absurdity as you commanding one of your children to “just be the family.”

By: DeknMike

DeknMike — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 01:59:24 +0000

Did you and I read the same Barna book? Reference of two golfers getting as much out of their game as their church was an indictment on what the established denominations have become, not a prescription of what should be. As he said so clearly in chapter six (page 52) “Switching from a Methodist church to a Presbyterian church is not transformational; determining to live in accordance with a biblical world view.” and on page 59 “God is still active in the lives of those people who are wholeheartedly devoted to and searching for Him.”

As Barna clearly says, it is not the size of the congregation that supports authentic faith experiences, but the action of the leadership to mentor, encourage and teach the gathered believers in true experience of the living God.

By: Steve Crenshaw

Steve Crenshaw — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 15:16:49 +0000

Thanks for a good review from someone that is familiar with the house church or emerging church movement. I read PC and was really taken aback at the failure to show both sides of the argument. Barna usually does a better job than this but swaying an audience may have just been the agenda.

Thanks Again,
Steve

By: Kenny Burchard

Kenny Burchard — Mon, 26 May 2008 19:52:18 +0000

Hey Zane,
Here’s the final post in the series I’ve been writing on structure and relationships. You may find it interesting.

http://kburchard.wordpress.com/

God bless…
Kenny Burchard
Hanford, CA

By: Kenny Burchard

Kenny Burchard — Fri, 23 May 2008 05:31:06 +0000

Hey Zane,
I’m four posts into my series on church structure and organization. You might find the most recent one a bit provocative. It is based on using church models as a baseline for criticising churches, ministers, and predicting the possibility of congregational dysfunction. I enjoyed your review. Here’s my post (part 4 is up now):

http://kburchard.wordpress.com/

Here’s a spoiler: I believe that small groups are most helpful for a lot of things, but judging motives based on models is dangerous.

Later,
Kenny / Hanford CA
http://www.hanfordoasis.org

By: Gabriel

Gabriel — Sun, 20 Apr 2008 19:04:28 +0000

Thanks for bringing some of this information up, Brah, as I have the book/read much of it and agree with many of the points they brought up……but much of it indeed seemed biased/incomplete. Especially in regards to knocking the institutional church on differing fronts….and for that matter, what seems to be hypocrisy seeing that they appear in many of the same things (conference/talks) they diss themselves. Barna, IF i’M NOT MISTAKEN, has even done research/been affilated with many kats FROM INSTITUTIONAL CHURCHES.