It’s easy for us to extol and honor them for their endurance under persecution but what do they want in terms of being able to meet openly?

Any of you Chinese house churcher’s out there? I realize that most Christian sites are blocked.

The following extract is from Finney’s Revival Lectures, chapter 14. He popularized, I believe, the view that Scripture dictates no certain form of church structure, government, or ritual. Of course, he had plenty of ideas about those matters, himself.

We are left in the dark as to the measures pursued by the apostles and primitive preachers, except so far as we can gather from occasional hints in the Book of Acts. We do not know how many times they sang, how many times they prayed, in public worship, nor even whether they sang or prayed at all in their ordinary meetings for preaching. When Jesus Christ was on earth, laboring among His disciples, He had nothing to do with forms or measures. He did from time to time in this respect just as it would be natural for any man to do in such cases, without anything like a set form or mode. The Jews accused Him of disregarding their forms. His object was to preach and teach mankind the true religion. And when the apostles preached afterwards, with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven, we hear nothing about their having a particular system of measures for carrying on their work; nor do we hear of one apostle doing a thing in a particular way because others did it in that way. Their commission was: “Go and preach the Gospel, and disciple all nations.” It did not prescribe any forms. It did not admit any. No person can pretend to get any set of forms or particular directions as to measures, out of this commission. Do it - the best way you can; ask wisdom from God; use the faculties He has given you; seek the direction of the Holy Ghost; go forward and do it.

This was their commission. And their object was to make known the Gospel in the most effectual way, to make the truth stand out strikingly, so as to obtain the attention and secure the obedience of the greatest number possible. No person can find any form of doing this laid down in the Bible. It is preaching the Gospel which there stands out prominently as the great thing. The form is left out of the question.

It is manifest that in preaching the Gospel there must be some kind of measures adopted. The Gospel must be presented before the minds of the people, and measures must be taken so that they can hear it, and be induced to attend to it. This is done by *building churches, holding stated or other meetings, and so on. Without some measures, the Gospel can never be made to take effect among men.

So, if I am a Mormon, my church rituals are OK just as long as I am not pushy about them?

“This is done by building churches,” you say? Is that “building churches” as in church buildings?

Are house churchers (and all you others) prepared to end all discussions about church rituals and forms if they accept Finney’s viewpoint? I don’t see any other choice.

Remember now, just as every Christian woman has obligations to the young, so also, Christian males, aka seniors or elders. See 1 Peter 5, where older shepherds (elders) are contrasted to the “younger ones.” .

Carter isn’t quitting or becoming inactive because of old age. This week, he’s grabbed the headlines again, meeting with leaders of an Arab terrorist organization, Hamas.

Corollary: Biblical elders never retire! Thus, none are said to have “stepped down from office.”

2. Carter no longer has an office in government but he still participates in government.

Corollary: All the saints are empowered to serve even without an office!

Psalms 92:14a They shall still bring forth fruit in old age;

In actuality, George Barna and Frank Viola team up in PC to inform us how to meet, where to meet, how to sit, how to dress, how to speak, how to sing, when to speak and sing, how to read the Bible in the proper order, how to discover Paganism under every stone, in the church bulletin, the windows, and even in the carpet - how to finally get it right in a world where everyone else got it wrong. If this book represents the house church movement - then it has chosen to go way negative.

One almost gets the idea that church meeting/leadership structure is the beginning, middle, and end of the faith. So much so that if outward things aren’t configured accordingly - “God’s eternal purpose is defeated” and it becomes your privilege and obligation to pack up, per the “Final Challenge” section.

In summary, small groups are vastly superior to large ones and those outside the institutional churches now possess the higher moral ground and the deeper Christian life.

The book’s perspective is that Jesus, rather than making good on his promise to build and guide his church despite the gates of Hell, somehow long ago lost control, became dependent upon humans, is now lonely, hands tied, looking for freedom, romance, and a place to go. In contrast to this sickly figure is the apostolic proclamation of Jesus - now exalted, reigning, the self-sustaining King who stands in need of no one, no thing, ruling and over-ruling in all things which come to pass above and below, adding to his church daily, his word not returning to him without effect, seeing the former travail of his soul and being satisfied, always in the midst of those gathered in his name. Neither is He worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things. Acts 17:25.

The authors point the reader to an impotent Jesus one would rather pity than worship and serve: “The Protestant order of worship strangles the Headship of Jesus Christ. …. Where is the freedom for our Lord Jesus to speak through His Body at will? … Jesus Christ has no freedom to express Himself through His Body at His discretion. He is held captive by our liturgy! He too is rendered a passive spectator!” page 68.

False dichotomies, strained analogies, historical distortions, private interpretations occur throughout but valid points also abound. Best of luck sorting it out… Most chapters leave the reader in a state of reasonable doubt, to muse: “So what?” , “Yea, but…”

PC is truly an in-your-face book with an in your face cover containing an in-your-face message. The father’s have truly eaten the sour grapes this time and the children’s teeth are set on edge. Heading off the grape list - I mean the gripe list are:

— Pastors who interfere with, subvert and usurp the headship of Jesus  That’s apparently ‘pastors’ as in all pastors. Now why must this be when it is Jesus, the Chief Shepherd, is the very one who has appointed and ordained shepherds in his church? 1 Peter 5, Acts 20. Jesus and pastors are not competitively opposed but complementary in purpose. True, there are bad eggs out there, just as was forewarned. No surprise.

An overseer/pastor/elder is required to be a teacher. Scripture is clear that all Christians are not teachers and that pastor/teachers are God’s special gifts to his church. No doubt there exist pastors who are domineering but most would be delighted to see others engaged in ministry. It is likewise true that for every controlling pastor there are countless lazy “laymen,” not looking to get involved - certainly not being suppressed. There’s plenty of blame to go around.

— Meetings where everybody participate  Viola, the real author of the book, must be unaware that most protestant churches offer participatory and interactive Sunday School classes where spontaneous and vigorous dialogue is invited and all are encouraged to say their peace. Not to mention home meetings, which lately have been adopted by churches of all varieties. Add congregational singing, special music - solos, duets, etc, responsive readings, church suppers, the Lord’s Supper, prayer meetings, picnics, and just hanging around in the parking lot or lobby. Sounds rather ‘participatory’ to me. I’ve been there and I was not a “passive observer.” Who is to suggest that these participants are not seeking the glory and fullness of Jesus Christ in these activities?

The priesthood of all believers, contrary to the unrelenting drumbeat of the author(s) is not associated with participation in Christian gatherings or the lack of such participation - it’s about an all-inclusive lifestyle. Furthermore, “Jesus-led meetings” or “meeting under the headship of Jesus” are also unknown to the scriptures because every aspect of life, 24-7-365, has already been claimed under his headship. His presence is explicitly guaranteed to each individual and groups meeting in his name, seeking to draw near to Him. No conditions are attached.

George Barna sought to demonstrate in chapter one of Revolution that a Sunday morning round of golf with a golfing buddy is a perfectly legitimate form of “doing church.” Now, the authors in PC are inquiring if the rest of us are really “meeting by the book.” Unbelievable. As their book unfolds, “meeting by the book” translates into one-size-fits-all house churches with a 1 Corinthians 14 type of open meeting. That sort of meeting, however, is a tongue-speaking meeting and a direct revelation meeting, much to the delight of our Pentecostal brethren. Do the authors insist on those elements as well?

— Orders of worship or liturgy  The apostles appointed order - not merely spontaneity. Order beats disorder. Boredom, sadly, happens in every sort of meeting. Many if not most house churches follow a regular order of doing what they regularly do. Although unwritten, it is just as real. Formal meetings are not for me either - others find them beneficial, even awe-inspiring. Let each decide.

— Buildings which suppress body life  Where does the scriptures warn us against such? Why didn’t Jesus and his apostles enter the temple and synagogues and command everyone to vacate the premises, go back home, and sit in a circle “without any human leadership” in order to just share? If the end of the Temple meant the end of the legitimacy of buildings for any Christian purpose, the apostles would have received and conveyed the message. They would have ceased to preach, teach, fellowship, and operate in the synagogues and the temple courts. The end of the Temple meant the end of animal sacrifices and the accompanying Levitical Priesthood. The authors keep repeating that “we are all priests now” as if that somehow proved their case. Exodus 19:6 demonstrates that all were always a “kingdom of priests.” As priests, the saints have forever been a separated people having direct access to God, able to mediate for one another. The priesthood of all does not and has never precluded the existence of physical structures or official leaders. Our Lord made it plain via the conversation with the woman at the well that true worship depended not upon location but upon “spirit and truth.” Be it a church house or a house church, it’s still bricks, boards, and mortar.

The OT contains references to a highly detailed and artistically appealing tabernacle which Jehovah gave the plans for, an ornate and colorful temple which his glory filled and which Jesus called “his Father’s house.” Choirs, full-time musicians, chief musicians, instruments of every description were employed in public worship. The idea that these forms of expression originated in Paganism is an absurdity beyond imagination. The thought that NT saints now have less freedom in their worship than their OT counterparts is unsustainable as well.

I can’t help but notice that church buildings, at present and throughout history, have been the community centers in many localities. Why would not the attendees desire to look and smell their best when they arrived? What business is it of others? I am familiar with churches which have owned their buildings debt-free for more than 250 years. These are often used for public events which would totally overwhelm the private home of any member. Things like food and clothing storage and distribution, home school cooperatives, athletics, day care, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, dance instruction, music instruction, plays, concerts, marriages, funerals, youth events, senior activities - even local house church meet-ups.

The Jewish people had a long tradition of meetings in large groups which extended backwards in history for thousands of years. Every Sabbath was a holy convocation. Our Lord is aware that folks draw strength by being in a crowd of like-minded ones.

In fairness to history, it should be noted that in some localities early Christians were severely persecuted - even thrown to wild beasts. Some were forced to meet secretly in private dwellings - even in caves. The fact that neon church signs from the apostolic age have not been unearthed should surprise no one. Many priests are said to have been converted in the apostolic age. Whole synagogues may have been Christianized over time - we don’t know for sure. A believer in this era would have attended public and private meetings, just as recorded in Acts 2.

What I do know is that liberty in Christ entitles Christians to own and use whatever they will for his glory, be it a house, meeting house, house boat, or tree house. Yes, if something such as a building becomes a financial ball and chain or is seldom utilized, it should be dispensed with. Likewise, for churches which have been on life-support for years - let them naturally die. It shouldn’t take the study of Paganism to figure this out. I have yet to meet the person who claims that a building is necessary for church. It’s simply a matter of convenience.

— Elders? Deacons? Overseers?  These seem to get swept aside in the name of a contrived definition of the priesthood of all believers. Why are these characters minimised when there is line upon line concerning their appointment, moral requirements, duties, and connectedness to the first churches? To posit, as do the authors, that “the word ‘pastor’ appears only once” doesn’t take into account the other uses of the word and the other synonyms for it. (1 Peter 5, Acts 20, Titus 1, 1 Tim 3, 1 Tim 5, etc.).

And why, pray tell, do the very ones who so devastated by “main speakers” and chairs alligned in the same direction, etc. regularly participate in conferences and workshops where they are the “main speakers,” chairs aimed forward, carpet on the floor, money exchanging hands, worship leaders and bands up front “leading the music,” recording machines capturing their “monologues” to be later converted into articles of commerce? Are the authors bemoaning the priesthood of every believer being violated, spontaneity being pillaged, and Jesus being robbed when the attention is upon them?

Viola has stated that he really, really wants everyone to read this book. OK, why not do that which Christians writers could not have done in the past and put the book on the internet where anyone, anywhere can access, read, print, or email it? That was his practice in the past. Barna should make it his - then they can open up meaningful, much needed dialogue about “paid ministers”, “the love of money” and “making merchandise of the word of God.

This is remarkable: George Barna doesn’t believe that the traditional church or the traditional pastor has any warrant to function and that church today has zero impact on the community but he is all but stumbling over himself to sell his wares to traditional churches and their pastors. The authors drone on that the Christianity is too cerebral and academic. Why do they fuel those fires by publishing “must read” books and educational materials one after the next with more “cranium-swelling” works on the way?

Viola in the original edition of PC, page 294, writes: “Take note, the NT is not a manual for church PRACTICE.”

George Barna, in like manner, wrote in Revolution: “The Bible does not rigidly define the corporate PRACTICES, rituals, or structures that must be embraced in order to have a proper church.” page 37

And: “We must also address one other reality: The Bible never describes “church” the way we have configured it. The Bible goes to great lengths to teach us principles for living and theology for understanding. However, it provides very little guidance in terms of the methods and structures we must use.” page 115

Such quotes would seemingly dismiss questions of church governance and style, leaving them open for expediency and preference according to one’s conscience before God. Furthermore, according to Revolution, a true Christian needn’t attend nor be attached to any local assembly. Take it or leave it. So, I must inquire, why would these authors have the least scintilla of interest in the methods of others? How could anyone get it wrong?

What of the extensive footnotes? The primary sources are conspicuously missing (as are the usual references to the theological journals) in a book alleged to be a historical study. Likewise missing are word studies of the original terms in question. Taken as a whole, the notes, however interesting, do precious little advance the conclusions of the book. An equal sized collection could be gathered to demonstrate the Pagan roots of the model of church/spirituality/mysticism/individualism/allegoricalism which the authors advocate. Few - microscopically few - of those cited did/would sign off on the core message of this book which, I suppose, is why “no such book was ever written.” If it were a real historical work, historians and theologians would be endorsing it in significant numbers, which they aren’t.

In short, this book is about externals, most of which are erroneously linked to Paganism and to an all-powerless Jesus who isn’t available, isn’t around unless everything specs out. In their attempt to champion freedom and simplicity in Christ, the authors actually do the opposite. While being assured that they “have both scripture and history on their side,” neither is in the end.

It’s also a book about unsubtle guilt manipulation. It closes with a ‘now that you’ve heard the real story for the first time you need “to step out” of the toxic wasteland known as the institutional church.’ The passage about “voiding the word of God by traditions” is evoked as support as the guilt gets piled higher. What is conveniently overlooked is the fact that Jesus is dealing with unbelieving Pharisees in the context - not believers and not about matters of church practices. Twice on the same page we are reminded that externals count for little. Mark 7:6 “These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.” Mark 7:15, Nothing outside a man can make him unclean by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him unclean.” Or as another puts it: To the pure, all things are pure.

Personally, I’m into house type churches and I disdain institutionalism, clergyism, and commercialism wherever I encounter it. Most of all, I’m into the church - one, holy, and universal. The bottom line is that there is but one faith, one Lord, and one church. You’re in or you’re out irrespective of your meeting format and leadership setup, however important. We’re obligated to love every other saint enough to die for him or her. In that context alone, Christians should inquire how God might further reform their church structures and roles according to Scripture. The book, along with hundreds of others out there, is right on in that certain foundational elements are amiss and that changes are in order, past due. The book, however, is mistaken that most every practice is rooted in Paganism.

Meetings are but a means to the end of conveying the hope, love, and fellowship of Jesus who is all and in all. Getting the externals right, though highly desirable, is not the end. Truth is, due to the lingering effects of sin, alternate forms of church have unique problems to overcome despite all the romantic idealism dripping off the exaggerated reports and bogus statistics.

Very soon, Jesus the Judge will inquire of us what we did in his name for others, not if we had perfectly ordered meetings.

The arrogant talk by Viola of certain parties having “no right to exist” is but a shameful echo of an unlearned lesson from the past: “What need have I of you?” 1 Corinthians 12. Far away may be it driven, readers! (In the newer edition, it does appear that “right to exist” has been changed to “right to function” but the condescending, self-righteous tone of the book remains.)

Despite the failings of men and all those misconfigured churchs, Jesus has indeed been preached worldwide and has emerged as the most influencial person of all time, His church is the most influential institution of all time on planet Earth. For the most part, house churches have played a non-existent or lesser role thus far. I hope that changes if God wills. The number of those needing Jesus now is greater than existing structures can hold.

Even in China where house churches are touted as pristine Christianity, few remotely resemble the model set forth in PC - things like human leadership and distracting wooden benches, you know. The history of the church reminds us that God is willing to use whom he will, despite how they meet.

What’s the house church movement in America accomplished so far? Where are they - those tens of millions of super Christians, “growing exponentially” in number? They should be highly visible on every street in every town in America. And since, according to Barna, Revolutionaries give more than a tithe, the effect of 10’s of billions of dollars in charitable donations should be apparent. 

It’s been several years now since Barna’s Revolution came out. I’m starting to suspect that his Revolution is rather his hallucination about the way things ought to be. ‘Announce the Revolution - they will come.’ Another house church advocating guy, interviewed by Time Magazine, reported (elsewhere) that a thousand house church planters had been trained in two months in the USA but later he wasn’t sure what country this training actually occurred in. Be that as it, it does speak volumes that when it’s time for this movement to get its message out via the big league media, the message is not a positive, transformational ‘we’ll show you because we’ve done it - not just tell you’ message about what God has truly accomplished but rather a winding diatribe about how the institutional church has failed because of Pagan influence.

Ancient Paganism, the term loosely used, espoused beliefs about an omnipresent diety, a son of god in human form, an invisible god-spirit, a world-wide flood, expiation of sin by blood sacrifice, a priesthood, laws from a diety, future punishments below, glory above - why not just dismiss the whole Bible as Pagan? Some do, of course. Pagans also drank milk, took wives, and raised children. Where does it end?

Give me a few minutes and I can, with merely a one dollar bill, demonstrate the Deistic, Masonic, Egyptian, Zoroastrian roots of modern American practices. Then you’ll be given the opportunity to renounce your citizenship and to leave the premises. Interested? Hey, maybe Pagans got their best ideas from us. It is the genuine article which gets counterfeited, is it not?

I found a text version of the book. In it, the phrases “church planting, church planter” did not appear. That is significant in that we too often see the church as something we plant rather than God adding to.

One plants (the gospel), one waters, God gives the increase!

The organic church guys from North America broke the rules again: instead of a Powerpoint with numbers they took a collective time-out to model simple church - basically listening to Jesus and doing what He says. It touched me to see three ex-megapastors, one ex-normalpastor and a seminary professor do just that. No program, just Jesus. John White challenged us with what he calls ‘the leadership solution’, daily praying the Luke 10:2b prayer for laborers, together with a soul mate. Since he started doing this, and teaching this organic principle to other believers, God sent people on his way, one after the other, asking advice on how to plant churches, and he could simply coach them in doing that. This way, the simple church networks in the States are growing exponentially.

While 530 simple churches were planned ‘in faith’ for 2005, they hit the 6,000 mark. While they intended to train 530 church planters in 2005, they saw 1,000 church planters trained in the first two months of 2006 alone. With this kind exponential growth (the current growth rate is 70%) they could reach their target of 4 million simple churches in North America (400,000 networks, 40,000 network coaches, 4,000 lead coaches) by the year 2018. Then they still have two years left to rest from their labors.

marcsmessages.typepad.com/mm/2006/02/my_big_five_ear.html
dawneurope.net/index.htm

In a message dated 8/14/2007 10:12:14 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time
—–Original Message—–
From: D Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 11:24 AM
To: DAWN USA

Greetings,

I am very interested in studying, visiting, and writing at length
about the house churches and church planters reported by DAWN. I just
had a few quick questions for the present.

Is there a detailed report already available? I would be happy to
link to it in my research which will result in a free on-line paper.
What are the 2007 numbers and where are these churches concentrated
in the USA? Who is keeping these records? Who is the “they” which
trained 1,000 church planters in two months?

Much, much thanks in advance,

David Anderson
Bristol, TN

On Aug 14, 2007, at 1:45 PM, (withheld @ DAWN) wrote:

Dear David,

I’m afraid we won’t be much help in providing the numbers you requested. We have attempted over the years to estimate the number of house churches in North America. However, we have slowly come to the conclusion that it is an impossible task and perhaps not even that necessary. For instance, we did a study of just the state of Colorado and were able to identify 13 networks of 5 to 10 house churches. We were quite sure there were many times that number but it just took too much time to track them all down.

Perhaps you have seen the little article comparing the reproductive capacities of elephants (traditional churches) and rabbits (house churches). Not only are rabbits way more prolific than elephants. They are also much more difficult to count. You will have no difficulty determining the number of elephants in a large field. Counting the rabbits is another story.

Rather than trying to keep track of rabbits, we have felt that our calling was to do all we can to pray for, identify, connect and support the apostolic church planters. Currently there are about 120 of those folks that we are connect with. Our feeling is that if those people are healthy, the number of healthy churches will increase naturally and spontaneously.

In reference to the “1000 church planters trained in two months”, Mike Steele said that had mostly to do with a large gathering in Norway a couple of years ago led by Neil Cole. The attendance at that training event was combined with several smaller training events in the US to come up with 1000.

I’m sure you are familiar with George Barna’s book Revolution. That’s the only source that we know of that even begins to estimate the number of house churches in the US. And, he is, of course, only extrapolating from sample groups.

Again, I’m sorry I can’t be of more help.

(name withheld)

Me again. I’ve been trying to track down this unprecedented work of the Holy Spirit via house churches for awhile now. I doubt that it is occurring in Norway as Marc, cited above, is from that part of the world. Have you seen it?

The original report of “exponential growth” was more than 2 years ago. What would the numbers be now?

Likewise, those selling the sacrificial animals offered a very real service in the eyes of most. Otherwise, they would have been removed prior to Jesus.

What did our Lord detect in their harmless looking “ministries” which enraged him so?

What if they had rendered their services on a voluntary, non-profit basis?

What can we learn from this holy outburst of righteous anger?

When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father’s house into a market!” John 2:13-16

‘Minister’ is the same word ascribed to government officials by Paul in the book of Romans, by the way. The abolition of slavery - I’d call that a ministry.

Anyone seen the recent movie about William Wilberforce?

Still, it’s is a great idea - perhaps the start of something permanent.

“10,000 Men, A Call To Action” kicked off on some of Philadelphia’s meanest streets Tuesday night, near 19th and Federal in the 17th District on the city’s South Side.

It wasn’t thousands that showed up, but dozens … all African-American males, most in their 40s and 50s, some pushing 70, fathers and grandfathers hoping to make a difference.

“We’re doing this for the children,” one told me. Showing they care, patrolling block after block in reflective “Town Watch” vests, talking to residents and drivers, handing out fliers, chanting, “It’s a new day, a peaceful way” and “10,000 strong can’t be wrong.”

We walked with them from a local community center to a gritty area a mile away, where they canvassed six square blocks, two-way radios and fliers in hand, talking to anyone who would stop and listen.

I saw curious stares from behind curtains, skeptical looks from some young people on corners, and honks and hugs of gratitude from others.

The all-volunteer effort is designed to reassure folks in the crime-plagued neighborhoods that people still care about their problems, spreading the word help is available for jobs, financial services, youth programs and more. The fliers have phone numbers on the back and words of explanation and encouragement on the front.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313564,00.html

Edwards, one of the greatest Preachers of all time, was married in 1727.

He and his wife Sarah had 11 children and are an excellent example of two people who built such a spiritual family dynasty: 173 years after their marriage, a study was made of some 1,400 of their descendants.  

By 1900 this single marriage had produced 13 college presidents, 65 professors, 100 lawyers, a dean of an outstanding law school, 30 judges, 56 physicians, a dean of a medical school, 80 holders of public office, 3 United States senators, 3 mayors of large American cities, 3 governors, 1 Vice-President of the United States, 1 comptroller of the United States Treasury. 

Members of the family had written 135 books, edited 18 journals and periodicals. They had entered the ministry in platoons, with nearly 100 of them becoming missionaries overseas.

http://worldviewweekend.com/articles/ChristianResponse.shtml